A friend of mine recently pointed me towards Anthony, K3NG’s latest blog post, “It’s Not About Hara.” In this post, he says:
What bothers me is that some dismiss any commentary or criticism of the Xenia location as merely Hara Arena fanatics sore over the loss of Hara, or simply as complainers. That’s not the case. I’ll acknowledge that Xenia was likely the best choice out of a few choices at the time, but it’s just not well suited long term for the Hamvention. There’s a lack of major highways and hotels nearby. The mud pit parking has become legendary. The buildings are more suited to host livestock than technology. The flea market is in the grassy track center, because, well, there’s no where else to put it. And last, the venue doesn’t feel like the largest amateur radio gathering in the western hemisphere. It feels like a county fair with amateur radio.
While I must say that the Greene County Fairgrounds (I hesitate to call it an “expo center”) is a much better venue for Hamvention than the crumbling Hara Arena, and I have very much enjoyed the past three years there, Anthony’s points are well-taken (by me, at least). The first year, the flea market was absolutely impossible. Last year, the addition of the crushed ashphalt made the flea market pathways passable, but I’m glad that I wasn’t trying to sell stuff there. This year was much better, but only because we didn’t get much rain. A heavier than normal rainfall will once again turn the flea market and parking lot into a mud bowl.
Anthony notes that the buildings are more suited to livestock than technology, but I really feel for the exhibitors that are relegated to the tents. I spent the first year at a booth in one of them, and while there have been some improvements, they’re still not what I’d call “professional” in any way. I noted that many of the booths in the tents were vacant this year.
Another example is the “classroom” that I was assigned for my one-day Tech class. It’s an odd, poorly-ventilated room underneath the bleachers, that during the rest of the year is used as a storeroom. I even have to bring my own whiteboard! At least this year, it was moderately clean. Last year, I had to vacuum the rug and clean the dust and dirt off the tables.
So, no, Anthony, I am certainly not dismissing your comments about Hamvention. I don’t know what the Hamvention organizers’ long-range plans are, but I would also encourage them to think about whether or not Xenia should be the permanent home for Hamvention. It’s good where it is, so think about how much better it could be in a more modern venue.
Ed says
You got a better place?
Dan KB6NU says
No. As I said, I”m well aware of the difficulties in finding and scheduling suitable facilities, and that Xenia is a far better venue than Hara was. But, I’m not sure it’s the final solution, either. Just think about how much more amazing it could be in a more professional venue.
Brian KB9BVN says
Unfortunately I have not made it to Xenia yet for a hamvention. I certainly understand moving the event to a new location is wrought with change and many learning experiences. I have heard most state the event has been better each year, but the venue has a ways to go regardless. I have been to Trotwood many times…and that venue, in my opinion, should have been headed for the scrap heap years before it finally happened…but DARA can only do what DARA can do and most of that is with volunteers. So should it stay in Xenia? Maybe…I have no idea what else is available. Personally I was lobbying for it to move to Indianapolis. thousands more hotel rooms, bigger and better airport, a really nice downtown area during both daylight and night time hours, plenty of stuff to do…I hope to make it next year…FDIM and the hamvention…where ever it may be.
W4JDY says
Always complainers. Hara’s flea market was outside. Better venue would be WrightState arena close to hotels and shopping and restaurants. It moving it out of state is ludicrous. For now, the fresh air for many of the way over weight operators is an added health benefit. Only complaint – Yaesu not bringing their Japanese staff as they did at Hara.
Seth Lavinder says
I figure as long as the officials in Xenia continue to promise improvements and are working each year for a better experience that the Dayton Hamvention will remain right there until the fair grounds crumble like Hara. I’m fine with that! People love to fuss and complain, especially hams! Offsite parking is awesome, just don’t park in the mud field, park at one of the many designated parking areas and ride the bus in. That’s no different than Hara where you once had the option of parking in the mud pits across from Hara or riding bus down to Salem Mall. If The fair grounds people agree and follow through with building a couple more of those buildings and do away with tents, and work to improve on the flea market area it will all work out! Despite all the rain and mud, I attended the first Dayton Hamvention at Xenia and had an outstanding good time! Eventually everyone will find something new to whine about and we will be back to business as usual for the next 50 years.
Dan KB6NU says
I don’t know all the details, but I was a little dismayed when they decided to keep the tents instead of building a new building. I don’t know if they’ve abandoned the idea of building a new buliding or not, but if not, then I’d say that’s an indication that perhaps the Xenia folks aren’t as all in as they might be.
Mike W8MRA says
The question that may need to be asked is how far from Dayton do you want to go? I agree with both you and Anthony.
I’m going to assume the Hamvention organization did some research trying to find a replacement for Hara. Is Xenia the best venue they could find in the Dayton area?
If Hamvention is the “largest amateur radio gathering in the Western Hemisphere”, does it have to be in Southeast Ohio?
W4JDY says
Ah yes as why didn’t another group of Hams start it in their own city?
Sterling Mann says
I wish we could move it to an actual convention center, but there is no way in hell that hams in America would be able to pay for such an event. St. Louis would be perfect, but ever since St. Louis lost the Rams, the America’s Center convention center has struggled to fill it’s halls, mainly because it costs something like $500-1200 per attendee to finance a fully packed convention, around 30,000 people, and that’s including a notional amount of corporate donations.
However…
I’m not a DARA treasurer, but hamvention attendees pay ~$25 per attendee at Hamvention, which brings in $625,000ish from 25000 attendees, plus some $5,000-10,000in raffle tickets, donations, etc, plus about $350,000 for 400 vendor booths and 1300 flea market booths….nearly $1 million in revenue.
Someone please check my math. I was using 2019 data gathered from Hamvention.org. But just imagine how much it cost Hamvention to run the show at the decriped Hara arena, and now at a fairgrounds…certainly not anywhere in the ballpark of $1 million!
The HerbalLife convention in St Louis – ironically built on dietary lies and multi-level marketing scams, drew in 30,000 people, injected $11 million into the economy, and cost each goer around $250 to attend (not to mention being scammed…), PLUS they’re drawing a large profit, but I feel like it shouldn’t be too hard to run a non-profit ham radio show for $1 million at a real convention center.
Still, I think ham radio will need some serious philanthropy before it can see it’s largest convention in a real conference center. Other than that I’m not sure where we’re missing the mark…maybe initial investment?
Friedrichshafen is a great role model for a nice place to have a convention, and I’m surprised it doesn’t draw more attendees. It’s a beautiful center but it is a rather far train ride from the nearest major cities.
Goody K3NG says
Call me Anthony, or call me Goody, but don’t call me Tony or late for dinner! :-)
Dan KB6NU says
Sorry about that! I’ve updated the post. I actually browsed around a little, trying to see if you preferred Tony or Anthony.
Rory says
Do we know where the hams who attend Hamvention come from?
Dan KB6NU says
I don’t know that personally, but I would guess that the Hamvention people have that data.
Goody K3NG says
No worries, Dan. I appreciate you picking up the topic and fostering intelligent discussion here. 73 Goody
Goody K3NG says
I think a fundamental question that needs to be answered is, what does the amateur radio community hope to have Hamvention look like in a few decades? It somehow evolved over the years to achieve legendary status. I think the loss of Hara has brought an issue to light: Hamvention has grown in size and importance in amateur radio beyond what Dayton can support, and perhaps beyond what DARA can support. That’s not meant as a slight to DARA and all the volunteers that devote countless hours to pulling off the event. On the contrary, their years of hard work have resulted in a good problem: a successful event that is a bear to manage. If Dayton can no longer support a venue of this size and the organization running it can’t support an event outside of Dayton, that’s not wrong, but that is going to largely shape what the Hamvention looks like in the future. I think a lot of people who dismiss this as complaining are overlooking the limitations of Xenia, or aren’t thinking of the long game. That got us in to trouble with Hara. We want Hamvention to continue its legacy, and not meet the same fate that other hamfests have suffered with downsizing and eventual extinction. While I don’t consider this the only metric of success, I’m eager to see the attendance numbers for this year. Did the move result in growth or did we experience a temporary “new location bump”? It may take several years to determine that.
David AI6OU says
Well, you asked…never been to Hamvention and not sure if I will ever. Living in 6-land, it’s quite an investment to get there. IMHO, it would be nice to have a bigger regional ham fest that moves around every year. However, it depends on two things: 1) Manufacturers – willing to schlep their stuff to areas or not, and 2) We are notoriously cheap animals. Out here, most hamfests have been moved out to other areas due to the increased costs and hams saying they won’t pay more that $20 or so to attend. Considering the amount of hams here in 6-land (blog owner and a few others excluded), you would think that we could do something other than 1 big general event (Pacificon) every year. Sure, Visalia is great but that is specific. There are a few other small ones, but they are shrinking every year. Just thoughts…wish it could be more like a roaming huge convention every year, trying out new places but the risk of finding enough volunteers and adequate hosting will never make it happen. Therefore, Xenia is it and it shall be.