Yesterday, I got the following email from a reader:
Hi Dan,
I recently joined the Neighborhood Watch here. They use rebranded Baofeng BF888s radios on channel 5 to communicate. This radio is pre-programmed by the factory, and as far as I can see, using channel 5 is not really legal. Channels 6 and 7 are FRS/GMRS frequencies, so they should be OK, but the rest are not according to web searches I made while trying to find out about these radios. Here are the channels and frequencies that I’m talking about:
- CH5: 462.525 CTCSS 114.8
- CH6: 462.625 CTCSS 127.3
- CH7: 462.725 CTCSS 136.5
This presents a dilemma for me, as I am the only licensed ham in this Neighborhood Watch group, and I was not in on the decision to use channel 5. Can I lose my amateur radio license if I program my own Baofeng UV5-RV2+ radio to 462.525 MHz?
Should I tell the Neighborhood Watch folks that they need to use a different channel, or should I leave well enough alone? These folks are not tech savvy and will not likely understand what the frequencies are, or what CTCSS means, much less what is legal versus illegal for their radios. I don’t want to lose my license over this, though, so I am asking What Would Dan Do?
Signed,
Nervous in Neighborhood Watch
I replied:
If I were you, I’d strongly suggest to them that they use channels 6 and 7, rather than Channel 5. The reason for this is that I think interference is more likely to be reported by users on Channel 5, which is used by the Industrial/Business Radio Service and the Public Safety Radio Service. (See https://fccid.io/frequency-explorer.php?lower=450&upper=462.575).
Also, be aware that operations on those frequencies may not be strictly legal. Power output for FRS radios is restricted to 2 W.
Could you have your amateur radio license revoked for using those frequencies? Possibly, but your group would certainly be given a warning first before such a drastic action was taken.
Was that good advice? How would you have replied?
Pete says
I’m sure that explaining to the neighborhood watch people that their use on that channel is not legal and may get them into legal trouble will be easy for them to understand. As Nervous is a ham and knows more about the legal and radio aspects of the situation, he or she might offer their knowledge to the group and be their “radio guy or girl”.
If they want to stick with those specific radios and aren’t willing to violate the law by exceeding power limits on FRS (which, while the correct and legal thing to do, is unlikely to cause issues or attract attention if they’re not obnoxious about it) , it may be worthwhile to get a business band license and program the radios to use that frequency. Shouldn’t be too expensive.
Alternatively, consider getting license free MURS radios. Baofeng makes type accepted ones for about $55 each on Amazon. Easy, cheap, and legal.
Ed Woodrick says
I believe the FRS also specifies a integrated antenna and a few other specification that make the Beofeng illegal for use. It was these specific type of items that got the FCC upset, as they were illegally marketed.
So I didn’t see you answer, but yes, the operator is at risk of losing their license by operating on other bands illegally. It’s an interesting dilemma that the ham could be fined, but the other neighbors not.
It’s so much easier to be legal and FRS radios and licenses aren’t hard to get. Even a business band license it easy to get.
Dennis Finegan says
“Strongly” isn’t strong enough. Cease & desist on channel 5. Neighborhood Watch groups should be warned about using radio communications. Maybe they should just stick to cell phones and be done with it. Dennis, K9DPF
Richard (M0RJC) says
Could the group alternatively get a light business radio license. The UK version is cheap anyway. Could the Baofengs work legally then? Someone with more knowledge of your license laws would need to answer. In the UK I believe they have to be locked to the licensed frequencies so no VFO. Yours sound programmable fixed channel count. Can you reprogram them?
Or for a no cost solution consider Network Radio like Zello. It runs on your smart phone so if they have these it’s something they already carry. Dedicated network radios have cost if that is to be considered. If you’re taking on new members and they’re likely to have a smartphone then getting them on Zello is cheaper than a new Baofeng. (Though research to double check for your use.)
Rob w4zng says
Short of either the group getting a business license or all concerned parties getting Tech licenses (i.e., not happening), I can’t really see a legal way for the group to keep using those 888s. Fortunately there are a lot of other legal and inexpensive paths to take – FRS, MURS, GMRS (with a group license?), even CB. Because a neighborhood watch group is primarily concerned with keeping things between the rails, I’ll bet that a quiet word with the group’s leadership would quickly get things sorted out and legal. If the issue of illegal radios ever came up, it might mean only a warning, but even that wouldn’t be good for the watch group’s reputation.
Probably best just to replace with a bunch of bubble-pack FRS radios and be done with it. For simplex use with stock antennas, their capabilities aren’t that different than the 888’s. Talk to the group’s leaders. As a ham though, I’d back out of the group if they insist on using those 888s.
Tim says
If it was me, and reviewing the Communications Act of 1934, CFR 47, parts 95 and 97, I would work with the group to set and implement good communications procedures that follow the spirit of the above rules. Practically speakng, i would get FRS radios that meet the standards. If you stick the with BF-888 radios, I believe you can adjust the power setting in Chirp (channels 1-7 and 15-22 are allowed 2.0 watts and channels 8-14 are allowed 0.5 watts), but I don’t know if that will comply with part 95 requirements.
I doubt the FCC will enforce a violation of part 95, or suspension of a part 97 license grant, due to a violation of part 95. More likely is that you will cause problems for people that have GRMS liceneses, or event other FRS users, since the channels are shared.
Would this violate the Radio Amateur’s Code? The code says to be considerate, so from that perspective, I would go back to defining good standards for your group, and doing what you can to implement those standards.
Frequencies found in FCC 17-57:
Channel No.Center frequency (MHz)
1………………………………..462.5625
2………………………………..462.5875
3………………………………..462.6125
4………………………………..462.6375
5………………………………..462.6625
6………………………………..462.6875
7………………………………..462.7125
8………………………………..467.5625
9………………………………..467.5875
10………………………………467.612
11………………………………467.6375
12………………………………467.6625
13………………………………467.6875
14………………………………467.7125
15………………………………462.5500
16………………………………462.5750
17………………………………462.6000
18………………………………462.6250
19………………………………462.6500
20………………………………462.6750
21………………………………462.7000
22………………………………462.7250