NOTE: Please read all the comments. As the discussion developed, I substantially changed my opinion on this topic…Dan
I hope you all won’t think I’m being jingoistic here, but I wonder why the FCC allows foreign nationals–at least those who aren’t residing in the U.S. to hold U.S. amateur radio licenses. The reason this has come to my attention is that this morning I received an e-mail from a reader, who pointed to an interesting thread on the HamRadioHelpGroup Yahoo group. He wanted my take on the situation.
It starts out with this e-mail:
American in Italy, trying to study for tech license and discovering
Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:10 pm (PDT)Hello everyone, I’m an American college professor living in Italy, studying for the technician license. I just recently joined this group. As someone with a non-science background, I’m still struggling a bit to figure out what the heck I’m doing.
And now I’m emailing you all because I don’t know WHAT to do about the mess I have accidentally stumbled on here in Italy, involving routine, mind-blowing fraud at Hamfest ARRL test-sessions. I’d appreciate suggestions- -and you are welcome to forward this to anybody you may know at ARRL.
Here’s the deal. Test-sessions are rare events in Italy, according to the ARRL “find a test-session in your area” web-page. And whenever one occurs in any city, it’s invariably on a weekend when I have to work! In any case, whenever I finally manage it, it’s going to involve taking trains and staying overnight in a hotel. Fine.
I heard of one in the Brescia area on Sept 3 (I couldn’t go), and I emailed the person whose contact info was provided, asking if there would be any other sessions coming up. His initials are VR. VR responded and seemed nice enough. I initially wrote to him in English, although we ended up writing in Italian.
A couple of days later, this same VR emailed me and asked me if I could help him translate some info into English for him to send to ARRL. He told me about some guy from Cosenza (down south in mafia-land), who is a former VE for ARRL who was already banned for “irregularities.” His initials are AC, except that he uses multiple names! AC fraudulently got another license under another name, and has been regularly participating at hamfests as a VE although he has no authorization to do this.
(Btw, welcome to Italy, where this is business-as- usual. I’m southern Italian myself, so I can say that.)
VR wanted to write this all up in good English, provide all the documentation (he somehow got photos of doctored test-sheets, photographs, etc.), and send it to ARRL. And since my English is better than his, he wanted me to do it for him.
Fine, whatever. I spent several hours sorting out the whole mess, which clearly involves multiple Italian hams who work together at test-sessions and game the system. The scam they’ve devised is actually pretty clever and quite complicated. Among other things, they have added names of people who weren’t there, indicating that they passed an exam; they’ll do this for you if you pay them 50-60 Euros.
VR was hysterical about the criminality of this. He ranted to me on the phone about it at great length. And he was so grateful for my help, that he told me at some point if I can’t make it to a regularly scheduled test-session, he can arrange for a special one. And if I get stuck on a question while I’m taking the exam, I can ask and he can help me with the answer.
As I said, welcome to Italy.
Well, after I wrote everything up in good English, and sent it to VR to email to ARRL, I thought that was the end of it. But a day later VR emailed me again (!), and said he’d spoken to yet another Italian ham who used to be a VE. His initial is F, don’t know his last name. Apparently F got expelled as an ARRL VE at the same time as AC from Cosenza, for “irregularities.” But F claimed he was innocent and wrongly got punished. F is a buddy of VR and VR believes him.
So now VR wants me to write up ANOTHER huge email to ARRL in English, and provide all sorts of documentation to vindicate his buddy F, so F can get his VE status back. It doesn’t appear that he even sent ARRL the first email I translated for him.
Are you confused yet?
Bottom line: look, I just want to take the dang technician test as soon as possible, and take it honestly. But these Italian VE’s for ARRL are apparently a den of fraudsters. Even if I had nothing else to do all day but translate complicated stuff into English for free, I don’t want to get mixed up in this!
On top of everything else, it has become evident to me from all this garbage that there are many more ARRL test-sessions in Italy every year that are not listed on the ARRL site. Why is that? Are these other test-sessions legit? If they are, why can’t I find them when I search ARRL online? The only test-sessions that show up, seem to be the ones proctored by VR.
And now if I don’t help VR translate this stuff, and I end up eventually taking the test at a session he proctors, he may very well fail me for spite. Because that’s what Italian professors do (remember that I am a professor myself, I know too well how they work!).
HELP! What do I do? Unfortunately flying back to the U.S. to deal with sane, normal people is not an option. :(
Kind regards, Catherine
My reader also forwarded a couple of the replies, both from Australians. One of them noted that he thought it was easier to get a U.S. Tech license than the equivalent Australian Foundation license, so some Australians get a U.S. Tech license first, then get the Australian government to issue them a VK Foundation license based on the reciprocal operating agreement between the U.S. and Australia. “Plus,”” this commenter writes, “there is a loophole where a U.S. foundation level licence (Technician) can be used to get an [Australian] Advanced licence (U.S. Extra equivalent).”
As you can see, the original poster is quite worked up over this. I probably would be, too, if I were in her shoes. The whole Italian operation seems shady, and since she doesn’t know the Italian VEs personally, she really doesn’t know what she’s getting involved in.
I can’t really say that I’m surprised by this state of affairs. If anything, it’s kind of amazing that here in the U.S. there isn’t more test fraud. My reader asked for my opinion, and without going into a lot of deep thinking on this, here are a few thoughts:
- I often get customers for my study guides from outside the U.S. About a year ago, I swapped some e-mail with a guy from Malaysia about why he purchased my study guide and why he wanted a U.S. license. He said that it was because a neighboring country offered reciprocal operating privileges to U.S. licensees, but not Malaysian licensees! He mentioned that he tested for the license in Thailand.
- Another reason that some outside the U.S. obtain U.S. amateur radio licenses is the challenge. That’s the reason Martin Butler, M0MRB/W9ICQ, of ICQPodcast fame, gave when I spoke to him about this recently.
- That being the case, I don’t fault my Malaysian friend nor my English friend from wanting to obtain a U.S. license, but there’s still something about this that doesn’t sit right with me.
- I think someone should forward this information to the ARRL VEC staff. I asked my reader if anyone has, and if not, I plan to do so.
- Perhaps one reason the that she can’t find these test sessions listed on the ARRL website is that I don’t think the ARRL requires that VEs list every test session on the ARRL website. It also might be that these Italian exams are being coordinated through another VEC.
- I haven’t thought through all the ramifications, but I’d be inclined to not allow testing for U.S. amateur radio licenses to be conducted outside the U.S. At the very least, I don’t think we should allow foreign nationals to conduct test sessions. I don’t see the advantage to the U.S. in allowing foreign nationals who do not live in the U.S. to hold a U.S. amateur radio license or conduct U.S. amateur radio license test sessions. I’m OK with issuing U.S. licenses to foreign nationals who do live in the U.S., but if they move out of the U.S. their licenses should probably be revoked.
- The U.S. Tech test may be an easier way into the hobby than the Australian Foundation exam, but so what? The question is whether or not the U.S. Tech test is too easy. Since today’s Tech license is yesterday’s Novice license, I don’t think so.
- The difficulty of the Tech test and any possible fraud in the amateur radio license examination process are two different issues.
- While there certainly does seem to be some flagrant rules violations here, is it really that big a deal that a few Italians have U.S. callsigns that they shouldn’t have? What are the ramifications, really?
I would be interested in hearing what you all think about this. I will post any response that I get from the ARRL, if they do respond at all.
DC7IA says
Hi Dan,
here are a few reasons:
1. Some countries have only few to no test session per year. (Croatia has one place and not often enough)
2. In some countries it’s hard to get to a session. When I wanted to do my test it always overlapped with school or were to far away to get there just for just one day.
3. As I said there are countries without testing.
4. I know a french guy who lives in Germany, but doesn’t understand enough German for the test (yet), but his English skills are good. So he did an American test with me as one of the VEs.
5. In some countries it is too expensive to do the test. Some people at the HAM RADIO in Friedrichshafen told me that.
6. Travelling. Some countries don’t accept the German license or other ones. That’s also a legit reason.
7. Preparing for a lomger stay in the US, while CEPT allows it only for up to three months, that’s good for ever.
8. You can do it again just minutes after failing. In some countries you have to wait some time to do it again.
9. To become VEs for other people who don’t speak the language the test is in.
I hope that helps a bit. I’m not sure what to say about the Italian situation.
vy 73 Joshua DC7IA • KK4RVI
By the way: I couldn’t find a session in Germany, so I had a session in my club.
Dan KB6NU says
I understand what you’re saying, Joshua, but it doesn’t seem right to me to use the U.S. licensing process to get around the difficulties in other countries. I think that the administrations in these countries would have a legitimate complaint against the U.S. for intruding in their affairs–if they knew what was going on and cared enough about it. Seriously, what right does the U.S. have to license Croatian citizens living in Croatia?
DC7IA says
As I’m reading this again more than a year later, knowing you already changed your mind, I simply want to add for people still reading this article:
“Seriously, what right does the U.S. have to license Croatian citizens living in Croatia?”
They aren’t licensing them in Croatia, but Croatia may issue them a license for Croatia.
Any country has the right to accept licenses from any other country. For European
countries (+ non European countries that added it to their rules) CEPT recommendations TR 61-01 and TR 61-02 make rules for that. Basically, this allows me to go to every other participating country and operate my radio (TR 61-01) without paperwork using the countries prefix in front of my call. As an example: M/DC7IA. I can also apply for a permanent license in that country (TR 61-02) if I want to.
From CEPT recommendation TR 61-01:
“INTRODUCTION
This Recommendation as approved in 1985 made it possible for radio amateurs from CEPT countries to operate during short visits in other CEPT countries without obtaining an individual temporary licence from the visited CEPT country. A positive experience with that system has resulted.
The Recommendation as revised in 1992 made it possible for non-CEPT countries to participate in this licencing system.”
So this basically means every country can license everyone, but you can only operate in countries that recognize the license. If someone holds a license from a CEPT country, that means he or she can operate in a lot of countries.
Up to three months. If someone wants to stay longer in another country, CEPT recommendation TR 61-02 becomes interesting.
From the CEPT recommendation TR 61-02:
“INTRODUCTION
The Recommendation as approved in 1990 makes it possible for CEPT administrations to issue a Harmonised Amateur Radio Examination Certificate (HAREC). The HAREC document shows proof of successfully passing an amateur radio examination which complies with the Examination Syllabus for the HAREC. It facilitates the issuing of an individual licence to radio amateurs who stay in a country for a longer term than that mentioned in CEPT Recommendation T/R 61-01. It also facilitates the issuing of an individual licence to a radio amateur returning to his native country showing the HAREC certificate issued by a foreign Administration. The Recommendation as revised in 1994 has the aim to make it possible for non-CEPT countries to participate in this system. This revision is comparable to the extension of Recommendation T/R 61-01 to non-CEPT countries.”
So coming back to “Seriously, what right does the U.S. have to license Croatian citizens living in Croatia?”
It means: Every country does have the right to do so, but not every country has to accept that license. It depends on three things:
– The country you want to operate is part of the CEPT countries making it easy or
– The country has an agreement directly with the government or
– The country has rules to accept licenses from every country, as long as the exam asks for the minimum knowledge defined by the ITU for amateur radio
The last applies to me, as I got my German call sign while applying using my american Extra class license.
I hope this helps somehow.
vy 73 Joshua DC7IA • KK4RVI
Sources:
CEPT recommendation TR 61-01 http://www.erodocdb.dk/Docs/doc98/official/pdf/TR6101.PDF
CEPT recommendation TR 61-02 http://www.erodocdb.dk/Docs/doc98/official/pdf/TR6102.PDF
Bob, KG6AF says
A few thoughts:
1) This is a textbook example of how not to tell a story. What an incoherent mess. I expect better of a university professor.
2) Instead of trying to conscript others, why doesn’t “Catherine” send her story directly to [email protected]?
3) There have been and will continue to be testing irregularities, and the VECs are on the hook to keep an eye on their own test sessions–and all VECs are located in the US. If a VEC lacks confidence in an overseas testing group, it can refuse to process submissions from that group. So until we get a more complete picture of what is or isn’t going on in Italy, I wouldn’t be all that motivated to propose any changes to current regs.
tom says
1) Be nice.
2)Yeah Catherine, why try to conscript others? And why not send your story to the ARRL?
3)There will always be someone looking to make a buck off this stuff. Human nature.
Bob, KG6AF says
1) True, I was blunt. Sorry.
3) Yes, there will be. And the VECs are expected to have mechanisms to deal with such chicanery when it arises. Riley Hollingsworth made that abundantly clear years ago, when there was a major testing scandal in southern California. As the July 30, 2004 issue of the ARRL Letter said:
‘FCC Special Counsel for Enforcement Riley Hollingsworth told the VECs he’s
“really aggravated” to still be dealing with enforcement issues resulting
from several 1999 examination sessions in Yucaipa, California “where VEs
apparently sold licenses.” The situation occurred, Hollingsworth said,
because “VEC management was asleep at the wheel.” ‘
Mind you, I’m not accusing any VE group or VEC of doing wrongdoing based on that email. Such an accusation must await “Catherine” or someone else sending a more detailed and coherent account to the VEC in question.
Tom AJ4UQ says
I’m an ARRL VE and our test sessions are only posted on the ARRL web site when I submit them. We’re a field stocked team (we have all the materials we need at all times), and maybe it’s different for the teams that get materials on a session-by-session basis.
Yohei, N8YQX says
The whole idea behind allowing testing sessions overseas is so these hams can operate when they come to the US. For example, a JA ham visiting a rental shack in Guam, so he can be a “big gun”. Reciprocatory is an option, but the problem with US reciprocatory system is that it limits the operating privilege to that of the foreign license. So, for example, even the highest license JA is limited to 50 watts, unless the station is inspected and approved by the JA government. So, you can understand why someone would want to obtain their US license if they’re going to operate in the US.
I suppose you can say, tough luck, and make these hams travel twice, once to get their license, and then again to operate, but I don’t think that really productive. If anything, why not require foreign hams to prove physical presence in the US to renew their license (visa stamp, US hotel receipt, etc). If you didn’t use your US license in the US in the 10 year span, you don’t get to renew. I think that’s fair.
Dan KB6NU says
OK. Licensing foreign nationals so that they can operate in the United States with a U.S. callsign is a valid reason for holding test sessions outside the U.S. BUT, I’d say that the majority of foreign nationals are not getting them so that they can operate in the U.S. See DC7IA’s comment above. They’re using the U.S. licensing process to get around their own country’s licensing process.
tom says
Visitors can use their own callsigns w?/whatever.
Resident Alien Greencard holders can take the test when the get here. Too many people abusing the system to get a preferred vanity call, not to mention the money
making operations in Europe. I saw Negative (unless they are military, government service, missionaries, or others having a legitmate reason for being outside the U.S. besides tourism, travel, etc. I they just live outside the U.S. thats their business. Get a foreign callsign.
IZ3NVR says
Hi Dan, I took my US Ham license in 2011 (my Italian call is from 2008) at Pordenone Hamfest. Passed the Tech and General in the same session and failed the Extra. I didn’t really look for other tests after that one since lots of things went on in my life on both the personal and professional side but I would like to hit the Extra as well sooner or later. That said I didn’t notice any other ARRL exams in Pordenone after my session. The VE that ran the session told me, while chatting, that there was lack of requests so the next sessions were not created.
I don’t really know what happened or is happening in other parts of the country or in other countries. What I remember is that my test was taken seriously. VEs checking for not cheating and such. I didn’t pass the Extra for 1 error.
I personally took my US license for both, a sort of personal satisfaction and the possibility of using it from the US (already did).
I guess most of the Italians holding a US call does that for the pure pleasure of holding it and having achieved such an accomplishment. Some do frequently travel to the US for both work or leisure and use it from time to time (know a friend whose son lives in TX).
That said as an Italian and as a ham the entire story makes me rather sad.
IZ3NVR – KD2BGM
Ron, W6AZ & HS0ZMD says
Dan,
Your article raises questions of corruption that are certainly worth taking up with the ARRL, but foreign testing is allowed by the FCC. I’m concerned that you said, ” The whole Italian operation seems shady,” and only two paragraphs later you linked to the website of Champ, E21EIC with information about the Thai ARRL volunteer examiners. It would be easy for a reader to be left wondering whether the Thai operation is shady too. You might not have intended this, but the positioning makes it possible and that would be extremely unfair!!
I met Champ and his wife at a RAST club meeting, where they run the new member registration table every month. I signed up as a gold life member of the Radio Amateur Society of Thailand. Champ is an exemplary ambassador for Thai ham radio at meetings and conventions all over Asia. He is a very active DXer and contester. I was introduced to him by our mutual friend, the Founder of the Northern California Contest Club. He has run the DX QSL Buro for Thailand since 2008, and has a business printing high quality QSL cards for a very fair price. If you have worked Thailand on HF, it is likely you have worked Champ and if you received a buro card, it likely went through his hands. His activities and those of his team are not shady, in fact he is a huge asset to the ham radio community in Thailand, as well as the worldwide community of hams.
Did you know that Thailand has the third highest number of hams in the world, only Japan and the US having more? BUT the vast majority of those hams (99.71%) have NO HF privileges. On May 12, 2012 the first exam in nearly eight years was given for the Thai intermediate license which provides those HF privileges. It has been much harder for a native Thai ham to get on HF than for expats coming to Thailand from the US and nine European countries that have reciprocal licensing agreements with Thailand. The Thai natives could not sit for an exam in their own country, but the expats only had to mail in a copy of their US (or UK, German, Swiss, etc) ticket along with a copy of their passport and they would get a Thai intermediate license in a matter of weeks or months.
I don’t know who figured out that the US VE program could be used to provide a path to HF privileges for native Thai hams, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it was a contester who studied the rules carefully and discovered the approach. Whoever it was, I applaud Champ and his team for making VE exams available and I welcome any of the newly licensed folks on the HF bands. Any that have taken that route have had to study just as hard as I did, even more so, as they couldn’t study or test in their native language! I could never have gotten my Thai license if I had been required to take the test in the Thai language. I am also very grateful to the Thai people (and some worthy expats) who helped make the reciprocity path available to me.
One of the most important benefits of ham radio is to bring together people from countries and cultures all over the world. The more that is made possible, the better it is. I know Champ understands that and he’s working very hard to expand the ranks of licensed hams, through entirely legal means. More power to him!
73, Ron
Dan KB6NU says
I don’t mean to imply that Champ’s test sessions are in any way shady. I’m not so sure, however, that the U.S. VE system should be used to circumvent another country’s licensing procedures. Perhaps the Thai officials don’t really care if it’s being used that way. If that’s true—and it sounds like it just might be—then more power to him.
Ron, W6AZ & HS0ZMD says
> I’m not so sure, however, that the U.S. VE system should be used to circumvent another country’s licensing procedures.
You have switched from the word “shady” to the word “circumvent” which has a connotation only slightly higher on a scale of dishonesty to honesty or illegal to legal. Both words are unfair to Champ and his VE team, who are doing nothing whatsoever wrong, but you insist on suggesting otherwise, with two different wordings now.
No one is circumventing Thai licensing procedures. Thailand has two legal and accepted procedures for getting a Thai ticket. (1) Pass their own test (in the Thai language) and a person will get a Thai call sign. The catch with this is they very rarely (once in eight years) schedule any actual tests. (2) They also accept that hams licensed through the testing procedure authorized by the US (and nine other countries in Europe) are sufficiently informed as hams for the Thai authorities to trust them with a Thai license too. Send in the necessary paperwork and they will issue a Thai call sign. Those are their two procedures, no circumvention of any kind is involved.
As long as there is no corruption in the VE testing, I think anyone who passes a VE exam, regardless of where they were born or reside, or where they took the test, has demonstrated the same level of ham expertise as any of us here in the US. The Thai authorities agreed to a reciprocity agreement with the US, presumably because they trust the US testing system is a valid way of ensuring hams are sufficiently trained to be on the air. Isn’t that what matters? Should we throw out this whole idea of reciprocity agreements? I hope not!
Before pressing for a change that only allows VE exams to be given in the US, it might be a good idea to get some actual data about the impact of the current system. Does the program help increase the number of trained hams worldwide? Does it make it easier for honest folks to get tickets that can then be used to get authorization to operate from rare locations in the DXpeditions that hams love to chase on the bands? Maybe there are some advantages to what is going on!!
Thanks, Ron
Dan KB6NU says
If the Thai authorities are OK with this, then I’m OK with it, too. If that’s the case, then they’re not circumventing any local authorities. I would guess, however, that other countries might not share that opinion, and as I mentioned in another comment, even view it as an intrusion into their internal affairs.
John says
Dan
I am perfectly ok with overseas license exams, contingent on US operating in the future. For example, if you have a US passport living abroad then test at your convenience. Or if a foreign national has a Visa for US travel then test for a temporary license. It’s basically the same system used for hunting permits in foreign countries. The operative element is limited license contingent on operating in US. To do otherwise seems to violate sovereignty and the spirit of ITU agreements.
I am actually in this situation now. I really want to test for a US license. I am stationed abroad with the US Army. There are no VEs in this country (confirmed with ARRL and Army MARS director). Skipping to then end, I am told that I have to wait till I return to the US, despite a valid reciprocal operating agreement with the country I am stationed in. Huge pain for me, as I don’t speak the local language well.
So, I think it’s ok to issue a US license to an EXPAT US citizen or a temporary operating license to someone with a US Visa. Anything else invites abuse.
Rob says
Dan,
things are not much better here in Germany. I know a local (non US) VE that successfully got his wife through all exams up to extra. The lovely lady would not be able to distinguish a capacitor from an inductor or even complete a single sentence in English without spelling errors. As the US exam is recognized by the German authorities it was exchanged for a full German license too. This sucks for people that spent a lot of effort and time learning the math and taking the text.
Thanks ARRL ;-)
Dan KB6NU says
Hi, Rob. I don’t think that the issue is the difficulty of the test. After all, we have the same issue here with people here simply memorizing all of the answers to the test. My opinion is that those who do that are only cheating themselves. In this case, I rather doubt that the lovely lady will become an active radio amateur.
Rather the issue is whether the U.S. should be granting those licenses and whether foreign governments should extend reciprocal operating privileges to those licensees? The next question, then, is whether or not it it’s worth the effort to crack down on this practice?
Frank WA8WHP says
A compromise might be the VEC must be a legal resident of the USA and on foreign soil the test given on a military base of the USA or the consulate?
George N6TQD says
To me Dan, this is upsetting. I wonder if this is part of the Administrations (FCC) globalization of America. If an American citizen is in a foreign country and wishes to take the test for a US amateur radio license why can’t they do it in one of the embassies/consulate office. It is understandable that that would not be cost effective, but isn’t there some officers of the FCC in foreign jurisdictions where the test could be given say once a year? It may behoove those in foreign countries to just wait until they return home. To me it is common sense to NOT take the test in a foreign country by unknowns, as Catherine says “they are just gaming our system”. I wouldn’t help VP or any of the other initials there as that could make one complacent with the fraud. I agree with you that a foreigner obtaining a US ticket should relinquish it upon departure from the US. If I were Catherine, I would contact the FCC through the consulate/embassy and see what arrangements could be made to take the exam at their facility.
Todd KD0TLS says
It’s an interesting discussion, and it’s easy to get wound up over this. Really, though, it’s hard for me to believe that these other countries are completely unaware of the situation. If they were so very upset, suspending the reciprocity agreements (or amending them) would be a simple solution.
I once had a long f2f chat with a (non-ham) comm guy who’s dealt with the authorities in Sweden, Peru, India, and Australia (and probably others). His take was that all of these governmental agencies were *classic bureaucracies*, and they didn’t really care if anyone got a licence or not. Their goal was to perpetuate their bureaucracy, not ensure that operators were qualified. Having “backdoor” means of obtaining a licence *justified* their Byzantine and opaque process. Because, if you *really* needed a licence and couldn’t jump through the hoops, there was always a loophole.
I’d suggest that your Italian correspondent notify the Italian comm authorities. Odds are good that they won’t care enough to take any action, or that whatever action they take will have “loopholes”. If they don’t care, then it’s hard for me to be alarmed. These are Italian citizens, after all, even if they are gaming the American licence system.
Dan KB6NU says
I think that you’re probably right, Todd. The local authorities in Italy or Thailand or wherever don’t seem to really care, and in some cases, may actually encourage VEs to administer the U.S. test. By allowing VEs to administer the U.S. test—unofficially, at any rate— there’s less pressure on them to reform their own arcane, bureaucratic processes.
Like I’ve said elsewhere, if the local authorities are cool with this, then so am I, assuming there’s no test fraud going on. One consequence of this is that if the U.S. licensing system is the de facto world standard, then it really behooves us to get it as right as we can.
Chris Howard says
Hi Dan,
I’m a UK licence holder, and the reason I took the US exams was because (at the time) I only held the UK intermediate licence, so, wasn’t able to operate when I visited the US.
It was interesting to see how just how much more relaxed the US exam ‘experience’ was compared to ours in the UK.
The only annoying thing I found was the need for a US postal address. It’s as though the FCC don’t recognise the rest of the world exists.
73 – Chris, M0TCH/ N4CTH.
Dan KB6NU says
The reason they require a US mailing address is because the FCC is the US licensing authority. They’re not the world’s licensing authority, although based on some of the replies here, it seems they’re the de facto world licensing authority.
John says
Trust me, in the case of VK, your exams are NOT the easy route! Our Foundation licence only requires 12 hours of instruction vs about 40 for your Technician. I’d never even heard of rectangular or polar notation until I prepared for my US extra, despite the fact that I hold that both Canadian & Australian Advanced tickets! The reason a USA Tech licence might be attractive to a prospective VK ham are:
a) Vastly lower cost
b) Vastly superior study “helps”
c) The confidence that knowing the exam questions are not secret men’s business
Note that, as people get forced into high-density housing, they may be forced into “remote-ham” internet controlled stations as their only way to get on the air. Nearly all of those are in USA, and demand a USA ticket for access.
You are also going to need to come up with a solution for South Sudan, and possibly a few other countries as well. They realized that they would be unlikely to be able to come up with a licensing scheme with as much integrity as the US system, so have no system of their own at all. Yep – to get on the air in South Sudan, you have no choice but to pass a USA exam.
I am a US VE, but not a US citizen. There will be ZERO corruption on my watch, I assure you. A USA ticket remains one of the most respected on the planet. I aim to keep it that way!
73
John VK4TJ/AC8WN/VE6XT
Dan KB6NU says
Thanks for your perspective on this. I think one thing that’s come out of this discussion is that the U.S. licensing scheme is the de facto world standard. That being the case, it behooves us to really get it as right as we can.
DrTeeth says
To me it is a bigger cheat that the pool of questions is publicly available for all to check and learn.
Lloyd Colston, KC5FM says
“The FCC has updated its Public Notice on Amateur Radio operation in European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations (CEPT) countries that have adopted certain recommendations regarding the US.” http://bit.ly/2cEq2pM
Are you thinking this will help?
73
Dan KB6NU says
I don’t think so. For one thing, as I understand this, the notice only adds countries to the list of countries that allow U.S. amateur radio licensees to operate there. The other requirements were already in place. And, the CEPT is only a European thing.
Saverio Amore, IK2RLS/K2RLS says
Hi all,
I landed on this blog and I need to post a reply about the depicted strange scenario described herein about VE exams in Italy, and possibly reply to Catherine.
I took part as candidate to two sessions reported in this discussion, performed at Montichiari, Brescia, Italy, Hamfest. I am 54, MS-level Degree in Electronics, 26 years old in ham radio, 295 DXCC and 420 IOTA , all job done with CW, etc…; I am a well known member of ARI, Italian Radio Society, and Award manager of the two main awards in the country (WAIP, provinces, and IIA, Islands of Italy), and solid contributor of ARI magazine. I hope it is sufficient to proof reliability in the audience.
I know VR, he is a serious and very famous dxpeditioner in Italy; he was chairman into the two VE sessions I attended in 2015 and 2016; the session held in september 2015 had about 20 candidates, and about 15 passed the exams, if I well remember; another member of the session commission was my “boss” in ARI. Well, the two friend guys were there; I easily passed Technician, that for me it is quite easy even with limited learning, but they fired me on General, by 2 errors. This last September I passed General , but VR fired me on Extra, and he said me to be more prepared next time. Not exactly a mafia-behaviour……
Said that , I think that Catherine could have had some misunderstanding; it is for sure possible that bad guys are in every organization , “black sheeps” (we call that way in Italy), specially when from mafia-oriented South, as said Catherine. But they are exceptional cases, easily recognized, and not representative of 99,99 % of Italian ham population.
It is more probable that VR would have thanked Catherine for the support done, because English paperwork in official documentation is a nightmare for the average Italian people; and probably pushing her to join the next FCC session , but for sure without inappropriate illegal compensation on exam evaluation.
Rules for accessing FCC exams in Italy are easy : there are nearly a dozen of major hamfest in a year (twice in Montichiari) where VE session are held; exact schedule is not always possible because FCC exams for Italian people is nothing but a VANITY exam, so sometimes sessions can be cancelled because of missing or few candidates. For this reason booking or intention of booking is welcome; this is why sessions cannot be reported by ARRL site; often participants from close countries are there (a guy from S5 last time, not exactly behind the street corner), because no sessions are in that countries. There is an attendance fee of 15 Euro, which is public known in advance, normally barely sufficient to VE team to pay gas for cars or a snack or a Cola.
Hope Catherine will be on next session in Montichiari in March to meet her, and she will get her FCC ticket , and possibly me to achieve my Extra one.
About FCC exams for Italian: as said , pure Vanity, but popular, event. Passing an exam in English is difficult for the average Italian ham, despite of possible personal high profile. Domestic exams for Italian License are easy since early 2000, when CW test was removed; they are multiple choice based, and they can be compared to US General, or even Tech level, for getting full HF privileges; they can be held in every capitol city of Italian regions , even if now barely once in a year.
Elder Italian hams are proud of their I or IK (and some IZ) prefixes assigned with the old CW exam, which made the difference from now. So today often US exam is something letting people distinguish among mass , specially in association with a nice US vanity call.
Saverio, IK2RLS & K2RLS
Thida HS1ASC/KH6ASC says
I am one of your target, hi. I am taking examination in Thailand. I did enjoy learning from the question pool. It’s been done really good. Taking examination in Thailand is also very strick and with respect.
Thailand has 3 classes license, Basic, Intermediate and Advance. Those who wants to operate HF must get Thai’s Intermediate class license which in Thailand Morse Code is still required. You are right that some of us taking US exam in order to get the Intermediate class license without Morse Code test.
The NBTC has just allowed Thais to get the Intermediate classe license the last 2 years to give hams choices. You must be able to listen to Morse Code or understand English enough. Thai VEs had shown their quility and honest enough to gain respect from NBTC. (I was in the discussion about this.)
Dan, what US loss are callsigns, but what US and US hams get from us is goodwill, very positive feeling. Everyone who get US License is so pround and others look at them respectfully.
If I were your govenment I would let it go as it is, this is the best way to promote and gain respcet to US. (It is the lowest cost propaganda, ha ha) US only pay with a few numbers of call signs. Sure there are lost and gain.
I know how you feel that it is not right, but it is a kind of generous hand extended to hams in the countries that still can not get full trust from the government the way ARRL do, extended hand to hams in the world.
I think the question should be, how to prevent such a funny thing happened to little Miss Professor.
By the way, I was intermediate class before getting general license. I am now in the first group who pass the very first Advance Class exam. License is not issued yet. (You can see how much we are behind you.)
Seems I must hurrily taking the Extra Class license before you cease it. hi hi
73/88
Thida
Dan KB6NU says
Thanks for your reply, Thida. Part of the reason I posted this was to get some discussion going. I think I achieved that. :)
I also feel a lot better about this now, after hearing from you and Ron, W6AZ. It pleases me a lot to hear you say that what the US gets is “goodwill, very positive feeling.” After all, in our regulations, one of the listed purposes of amateur radio is to foster international good will.
I wouldn’t worry about hurrying to get the Extra Class license. I don’t think this the current situation is going to change soon. If you are in a hurry to get your Extra, however, I know of a good study guide for you. :)
Fred K3ZO/HS0ZAR says
Actually in the case of Thailand, the administration does know about it, and in fact E21EIC and his VE group have conducted US exams at the NBTC headquarters. One of the problems that many countries have had is that those officials who were familiar with Amateur Radio matters have retired and have been replaced by experts in cell phone technology and frequency assignments, satellite control and the like. They have trouble assembling a group of experienced examiners to run Amateur Radio exams, so they are pleased when the local hams find ways to allow an orderly process to exist whereby hams can upgrade their license status anyway.
In other cases there is no local Amateur Radio license exam at all, so, for example, E21EIC has convinced the authorities in Laos to allow those Laotian nationals who pass a US VE exam to be issued Laotian licenses, and indeed a couple of XW1’s have already received their licenses this way.
In the case of hams at club station ET3AA in Ethiopia, which has received support from the Yasme Foundation over the years, K3LP and his VE group were able to give a number of operators there examinations which allowed some of them to obtain their US licenses, and even though the Ethiopian administration would not give individual Ethiopian licenses to those who obtained their US licenses, the fact that they had US licenses recently enabled some of those who were so licensed to operate from Austria and Estonia during summer ham gatherings in those countries.
Personally I think it is much to the credit of ARRL and the FCC to have a process whereby folks in countries which have no examination process to enjoy the world of Amateur Radio anyway.
73, Fred Laun, K3ZO (HS0ZAR)
Vice-President, the Yasme Foundation
Dan KB6NU says
The comments on this post have been overwhelmingly supportive of allowing these examinations to continue. I think that Thida, HS1ASC/KH6ASC, put it best when he said that they foster international good will. Since that’s one of the “purposes” of amateur radio, as spelled out in Part 97, who am I to argue that they should be discontinued?
Julien M Dedier says
Years back I wrote ARRL on this matter and they say it was legal, I spoke to a ham working at FCC on this same matter no reply .
Read my latest on Ham radio policy , why ISIS members have FCC license in the Caribbean
Updated Thursday 25th August 2016. Terrorist Alert Using Amateur Radio
Amateur Radio Examination TTARL Policy
TATT / Republic of Trinidad and Tobago.
Special Branch Trinidad and Tobago Police Service / Republic of Trinidad and Tobago
United States Embassy Port-of-Spain Republic of Trinidad and Tobago
Office of The Prime Minister Republic of Trinidad and Tobago
Office of The Attorney General Republic of Trinidad and Tobago
Office of The Minister of National Security Republic of Trinidad and Tobago
Only active candidates who have been involved in Trinidad and Tobago Amateur Radio League (TTARL) activities will be allowed to sit the ham radio examination
TTARL is putting an end to the fly by night candidate who just want to sit the ham radio examination and after ride off into the sunset, and not willing to promote the hobby and used it for illegal activities
New rules in order to sit the RSGB London ham radio examination with TTARL one must be a member of TTARL for at least one year in which time he will be in a commanding position to understand amateur radio and the hobby and best be able to sit the ham radio examination and pass.
On the date of the examination one must present to the examination secretary a certificate of good character from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service that he or she has no criminal records in order to write the examinations, failing such he or she will not be allowed to write the examination.
Once any potential candidates having any links or close ties with any terrorist group, organization, organized crime or by association will not be allowed to write the amateur radio examination.
Amateur’s Radio possess a serious threat to any country national security system and in this context TTARL is putting mechanism in place to avoid undesirable elements writing the amateur radio examination in Trinidad and Tobago with TTARL, for Trinidad and Tobago Amateur Radio Society (TTARS) who do the United States FCC examination, anyone can provide USA address and sit the examination pass gets a certificate and apply to TATT for a licence, this is very dangerous and an open door policy for any terrorist, criminals and organized crime syndicates to get an amateur radio licence any part of the world via FCC
As Director of Amateur Radio Intelligence Trinidad and Tobago TTARL and with the International Radio Emergency Support Coalition (IRESC) International Security, Special Consultative Status Economic and Social Council United Nations 2012, these measures take immediate effect.
At present ISIS supporters are already using amateur radio transceivers for communication and using Online hacktivist collective Anonymous AirChat: Secure data over ham radio scheme, right here in Trinidad and Tobago, the policy should be from TATT or the Government of Trinidad and Tobago Once any potential candidates having any links or close ties with any terrorist group, organization, organized crime or by association will not be allowed to write the amateur radio examination and must present a certificate of good character from the Trinidad and Tobago police Service in order to sit the examination.
International Business Times
Anonymous’ Airchat Aims to Allow Communication Without Needing Phone or Internet Access
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/anonymous-airchat-aims-allow-communication-without-needing-phone-internet-access-1445888
Times of India
Online ham radio sale triggers terror alarm
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/Online-ham-radio-sale-triggers-terror-alarm/articleshow/53836502.cms
73
Julien M Dedier 9Z4FZ
David Uzzell says
Hi Dan
And to clear one thing up, the Australian licensing system has now been corrected to reflect the 3 levels correctly.
Technician = Foundation
General = Standard
Extra = Advanced
And those that used the Technician to Advanced loop hole were allowed to keep their Advanced license until the renewal which gave them an option to upgrade appropriately or have to step back to the appropriate level.
As a VE in Australia we have had many different reasons for people to get their USA License. Travel, expat USA citizens who want to operate when they Travell home, remote Radio operations on continental USA. There are plenty of reasons for people to want to do it.
I also conduct exam sessions for the WIA on behalf of the regulator ACMA so understand both systems very well.
Then to the comment easier to get a Technicin license than a foundation license. Well the only real difference is the Australian licensing has a practical test which shows an understanding of safe setup and operating of an Amateur station. The other misconception is that for Australia you can take any test alone if you think you can pass such as Advanced as a single test and get your Advanced license which differs greatly from FCC requirement f having to take Element 2, 3 & 4 to get Extra, so easier to get Foundation, likely based on the lack of practical exam, easier to get Standard or Advanced in Australia, certainly not with only needing to take a single exam not multiple exams.
VK4QM / AK2DM
Reiner says
I just passed the General class exam. My reasons to do this: I am german and I life in Spain . I have a spanish callsign but only trhe german passport. So if the passport and the callsign are from two different euopean states, you can no operate under CEPT in USA, so you have to pass the exam for a us-callsign if you want to operate in the States.
Dmitry RA9USU says
Taking the tests is not necessary to get the US license. It is to take and pass the elements of US tests. US call is just an outcome of the testing (result, confirming the knowledge). Many countries are issuing local licenses based on qualification confirmations from the list of countries, joined by CEPT. Some countries have a very limited list of foreign authorities, who’s “qualification confirmation test results” they recognize.
Therefore, it is not always the intention for a foreign amateur radio operator to get a US call to avoid the local license hassles, but usually it is just a way for a foreign operator to conduct testing with the world-recognized entity to confirm his qualifications as a HAM. Same goes for GROL PG, FAA UAG, GMAT, C1 Andvanced, TOEFL, IELTS, SAT and other knowledge test with disregard of the student nationality. Or you want to limit those tests for foreigners too?
Nowadays, all the license requirements in US are so easy that people without any radio knowledge can easily pass the tests. Even without knowledge of English. Just memorize the answers to the questions.
So, if I am an amateur radio operator residing in a foreign country, I am taking a test for a US license for the following reasons:
1. Operating a contest remotely from a US-based station as a team member, although back in 1999, when I passed my first US license test, there were no remote stations available in the States.
2. Getting a license in the country that does not recognize my country’s license as a proof of qualification;
3. Operating as a team member of the DX-pedition, from the location where obtaining a US license is a requirement by itself (US-dependent territories).
P.S. And yes, I am all for fair testing, without cheating.